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Useful Idiots

Rusty Guinn

February 7, 2024·20 comments·In Brief

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In Brief

Comments

kendallweihe's avatar
kendallweiheabout 2 years ago

Not to be confused with Local Idiots

:clap: thank you for the clarity @rguinn :eyes: :heart:


rguinn's avatar
rguinnabout 2 years ago

Alas, sometimes a distinction without a difference, I’m afraid! :rofl:


dnadig's avatar
dnadigalmost 2 years ago

Really love the defense of clear eyes hear Rusty.

Legit question I don’t know the answer to: is propaganda always bad? Was it wrong for the U.S. to mount propaganda in the US to drum up support for WW2? Is the “means” here always “unjustified?”

I have no idea what the answer is…

Is there some rubicon that Putin could cross where you would say “nobody should give this bad guy a platform of any kind?”

Again, I don’t think I have the answer, so not being a twerp. But the edge cases make all the difference.


rguinn's avatar
rguinnalmost 2 years ago

Probably the most thorough writing I’ve done on this topic was in Deadly. Holy. Rough. Immediate. In short, no, narrative (and its political variant we call propaganda) is not always an evil. In my view, the only immutable error is to believe one’s self to be immune to it.

I think that can be true for some figures, for example those who have demonstrated consistent sociopathic manipulation of interviews and aren’t in a position of political power. Even then, I don’t think it should be a legislated thing but a social taboo we all enforce together.

But for a Top 20 most powerful political figure in the world, I’m not sure it will ever NOT be in the public interest to allow it (legally and socially), although I think you’re right in identifying that there’s probably a line where the obviously manipulative use the figure intends makes the public interest of “information” less clear.

So I think I have some of the answer, but not The Answer. Team Twerp!


dnadig's avatar
dnadigalmost 2 years ago

I think I agree with this. Definitely nuanced.


Every_bubble_looks_g's avatar
Every_bubble_looks_galmost 2 years ago

Having just watched the interview, imho this did not end up being a Tucker slobbers Vlad exercise. Putin’s opening 30 minute discourse on (severely distorted and often blatantly wrong) history made him look like a nut. And I would bet that Tucker did gently push back on Vlad more than most people expected him too, including pointing out that this long historical discourse was nonsensical (Tucker asked Vlad “should borders revert to the 1800’s?”), and repeatedly questioning - “if this is all true, why did you wait until 2 years ago to act? What precipitated that?” Which Vlad provided no clear answer to.


rguinn's avatar
rguinnalmost 2 years ago

I don’t think the idea of Tucker being a useful idiot is confined to him being openly obsequious. Under the guise of “Real Journalism”, he basically gave Putin an essentially uninterrupted half hour to promote 85 year old Nazi propaganda and weird pseudohistorical musings on Ukraine, basically all of the things he wrote about in his 2021 essay. Honestly, it’s more or less exactly what I expected.


robh's avatar
robhalmost 2 years ago

The Russian bots/troll farms are on overdrive on X today.


rguinn's avatar
rguinnalmost 2 years ago

And the useful idiots.

https://twitter.com/JDVance1/status/1756091114732269846

What’s fascinating to me is that Senator Vance provides one of the most succinct definitions of state propaganda I’ve ever seen, but does so as part of an excuse or defense. I agree with him, of course, that many of the crying-treason criticisms of Tucker are both silly and dangerous. I also agree that knowing, spotting and identifying propaganda is important - it’s kinda why we started writing here. We feel strongly about this.

But good Lord, Carlson is on the record repeating those “bogus” stories, most notably on his shows broadcast on the eve of the invasion (Feb 22/23, 2022). I don’t care that the interview happened. But giving credit to someone who has promoted the state propaganda before for publishing a practically uninterrupted and unchallenged primary version of it for shining a light is absolutely wild.

There is no difference between this and the Current Thing journalism that Vance, Tucker, I and others rightfully complain about. Except that for some of us, we’ve decided to treat this one a bit differently because we think it will help our political preference against additional Ukraine aid.


handshaw's avatar
handshawalmost 2 years ago

The point is that if you want to understand world affairs and make smart decisions, you have to understand how people see themselves.
-J.D. Vance

The real point, imo, is how do you ‘trump’ (‘biden’) people to give away their birthright autonomy of mind and spirit?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind (epsilon)
-Bobby Dylan

Propaganda

Any expensive ad represents the toil, attention, testing, wit, art, and skill of many people. Far more thought and care go into the composition of any prominent ad in a newspaper or magazine than go into the writing of their features and editorials.
-Marshall McLuhan

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